CLEVELAND, Ohio -- In this episode of the Wine and Gold Talk podcast , the hosts discuss the Cavs’ rotation, the possibility of signing Guerschon Yabusele, the role of Max Strus, the concept of the first and second apron in team building, and which players have the best chance to contribute this season. They also touch on the backup point guard battle and the versatility of Jaylon Tyson. More Cavs coverage Jarrett Allen’s afro, Team USA construction, and social media ablaze: Wine and Gold Talk podcast LeBron, Emmanuel Clase and the Flying Wallendas; where Deshaun Watson most needs to step up: Terry’s Talkin’ podcast Could the Cavs add Guerschon Yabusele from the French national team? Wine and Gold Talk podcast Takeaways: The Cavs are considering signing Guerschon Yabusele, but the financial cost may be too high for the team given their salary cap limitations.
Max Strus is a valuable player for the Cavs, providing floor spacing, shooting, and competitiveness. He is a good fit for the team’s starting lineup. The first apron and second apron are terms used to describe the salary cap limitations for teams.
Being in the second apron restricts a team’s ability to make moves and acquire players. Ty Jerome and Sam Merrill have the potential to contribute this season, with Jerome being a versatile guard who can play on or off the ball, and Merrill being a good shooter who can benefit from Kenny Atkinson’s offensive system. Jaylon Tyson is seen as a long-term replacement for Caris LeVert and has the ability to fill multiple roles on the team.
The backup point guard battle between Ty Jerome and Craig Porter Jr. is something to watch during training camp. The Cavs’ roster construction and lineup decisions will be influenced by factors such as size, defensive limitations, and offensive upside.
The Cavs are looking for players who can provide value at a lower cost, especially as the team becomes more expensive. The Cavs’ season is highly anticipated, and there are many factors that could impact the team’s success and player development. Listen using the player below: You can also listen using your preferred podcast app.
Subscription information is below. Subscribe and listen on Apple Podcasts or Spotify . The video version of the podcast is on YouTube as well.
Read the automated transcript of today’s podcast below. Because it’s a computer-generated transcript, it may contain errors and misspellings. Ethan Sands What up, Cavs Nation? I’m your host, Ethan Sands, and I’m back with another episode of the Wine and Gold Talk Podcast.
I’m joined by your favorite beat reporter, Chris Fedor. Chris, we’re heading into the home stretch, heading into the weekend. I hear we might have some vacay days coming up.
What you guys got planned over there? Chris (00:33.32) Man, I don’t know if there’s anything set in stone at this point in time. We’ve talked about a lot of different things though, Ethan.
We’ve talked about taking a trip to Disney in Florida. We’ve talked about taking a weekend trip to Great Wolf Lodge, which is like an indoor water park for kids. We’ve talked about going to see our close personal friends who live on a farm down in Somerset, Ohio, which is about three hours south of us.
We’ve talked about going to a place called The Wilds, which is essentially like a safari tour that’s east of Columbus. So there are a bunch of things that we’re kicking around. Nothing that we’ve actually set though.
We certainly have to get on that, especially if we’re going to do the Disney trip. But, you know, basically from now until the beginning of training camp, I’m going to be out of commission as much as I possibly can and trying to enjoy. the remainder of the summer before the grind of the season starts.
Ethan Sands (01:33.126) And since that’s gonna happen shortly, we can’t let you leave without doing another episode of Hey Chris, letting the fans give you questions to us and letting you give your insight on all different ranging topics. And of course, we have to get your feedback on some food topics as well.
There are some of those mixed in in this conversation, something that we talked about on the last podcast that we wanted to continue to do. So you guys got to know our personalities a little bit, but Chris, we’re going to start with some calves questions to begin today’s episode. And I’m going to start with this one because it has more to do with something that we talked about recently.
Stefan in Parma says, I just listened to your Yabaseli podcast, which I very much enjoy. Chris (02:04.51) Yeah.
Ethan Sands (02:23.938) However, I have a question based on your comment that the Cavs rotation is fairly well set. Given that they have a mediocre bench that hasn’t come through in the playoffs, I’m wondering if they should shake it up a bit.
Do we want to count on guys like Niang and Okoro who didn’t come through in the playoffs this past year? Or would it be better to make some deals and try out somebody like Yabusele to see whether he could do better? Chris, what do you think about this? Because I like we’ve talked about it a couple of times when it comes to the situation that the cows are in money wise and how that might fare. Chris (02:59.123) Yeah.
So since we did that podcast on Yabba Salli, I had multiple conversations with multiple people inside and outside the organization, just about the Cavs and how they’re viewing the situation with Yabba Salli. They are interested. They have done their due diligence.
They have done a lot of Intel gathering on Yabba Salli. They’ve reached out to teammates of his for Real Madrid. They’ve reached out to coaches of his from the past.
on both in Boston and from Real Madrid. and they’ve talked to the cabs. That is they’ve talked to his, American based agent to try and figure out just where Yabba Silly’s mindset is at.
And it feels like the situation is this, number one, he does have that buyout and that’s what we talked about. But like, if he’s going to leave a very comfortable position, a situation where he’s very comfortable, where he’s getting a big opportunity and he’s one of the best players in the Euro league. Some team is going to have to pay him.
They’re going to have to compensate him beyond what I think the Cavs want to spend with the veterans minimum. I think they’re looking at a situation, Ethan, where it’s effectively the last roster spot that they have and paying the veterans minimum for that guy is fine, but paying five to six million dollars in a contract, in a multi -year contract, to make it worth it for Yabaseli to even come to the United States, that’s what he’s going to want. He’s compensated well in the EuroLeague.
So if he’s going to give up that and his opportunities and his playing time and the situation where he’s very, very comfortable overseas, he’s going to want to be financially compensated. And that’s beyond the buyout. Chris (04:52.
862) So he’s going to want a contract, probably a two or three year deal worth around five to $6 million per year. So you have to give him that contract and you have to pay the 2 .5 million or whatever it is in a buyout.
And I just think that’s a little bit too rich for the situation that the calves are in. Beyond that, I I think you can sit here and you can say, well, George Niaing underperforms. And I think you can sit here and say that Karis Lavert was inconsistent, especially when he got to the playoffs and Isaac Okoro had his minutes cut as the playoffs progressed and JB Bickerstaff lost confidence in him.
And all those things are true. But that doesn’t mean that that’s going to happen again. Number one.
And number two, it doesn’t mean that Yabba Sallie is better than any of those guys. Like the one thing that we know about George Nhiang is that he can play in the NBA. that he can provide consistent minutes, especially during the regular season.
Sure, we have questions about just how effective he can be in a seven game series, in certain matchups, but we know he’s an NBA player. He has shown himself to be an NBA player. The same thing when it comes to Isaac Okoro and Karis LaVert.
We don’t know those things about Yabba Sallie. Everything is about trying to project how he’s going to fit in the NBA. Maybe he can do it.
Maybe he can’t. There are guys that come from overseas and they try to take that leap and they aren’t able to do it. And they realize that they’re better off going back overseas, continuing to play there in a certain system, in a certain situation, and with a playing style that they’re more comfortable with.
And that’s not to say that if the Cavs brought over Yabaseli or somebody else in the NBA brought him over that he would absolutely fail. I don’t know that. That’s the problem.
I don’t know if he would succeed or fail. You don’t know if he would succeed or fail, Ethan. The Cavs don’t know if he would succeed or fail.
That’s a big gamble to take when you’re talking about that kind of money and you’re talking about a team that’s already incredibly limited when it comes to their salary cap flexibility for this year. And if, if Isaac Okoro accepts the qualifying offer, the Cavs are a tax team. Chris (07:16.
466) And then they’re going to spend the rest of the year before the end of the season, seeing what they can do, if anything, to get out of the tax. Ethan Sands (07:18.912) And I think that also goes to s Ethan Sands (07:26.
926) Yeah, and I also think that’s interesting topic to talk about because when you think about what the fans could see, right? Because we want to talk about what is appealing about Yabu Selly, right? Because he’s 6 ‘8′′, 275, the Cavs kind of looking for a guy that can play backup center, backup power forward, also fighting for a guy that’s...
has a little bit more size to play the power or play the small forward position behind Max Drews because I think Chris, you’ve been kind of very still on this tape that you believe that Max Drews can play the small forward position for the Cavs in a long -term role or what do you think about that? Has that changed throughout this off season with the moves? Chris (08:12.316) No, it hasn’t. And look, are there better small forwards in the NBA than Max Drews? Are there guys that I would be more comfortable with if they were starting at small forward for the Cavs as opposed to Max Drews? Sure, of course.
But those guys aren’t attainable. And last year at the time that Max Drews was a free agent, he was the best one available, right? This past year, When the trade deadline was going through of what the Cavs could afford in a particular trade, it made more sense to stick with Max Drews as the small forward as we’ve gone through this off season, given the cost of what it would take to trade for some of these guys, including McElbridges, who went to the New York Knicks and the limited trade assets that the Cavs have because of the blockbuster Donovan Mitchell deal that they made a couple of years ago. They just don’t have the resources at this point, Ethan.
They don’t have the assets at this point to significantly upgrade the small forward spot. Could they, in theory, find somebody that’s better than Max Deuce? Of course, he’s not the best starting small forward in the NBA. I wouldn’t say that he is.
But what I will say is he’s a really, really good fit for this team. And he’s a really, really good fit. in their starting five.
And he’s a really, really good fit around Donovan Mitchell, Garland, Jared Allen, and Evan Mobley. And he provides things that the Cavs need. They need his floor spacing.
They need his shooting. They need his movement. They need his off ball cutting.
They need his competitiveness, his tenacity, his no nonsense demeanor. And for all the things that you want to say about Max Drews, I continue to go back to this. He did not shoot the ball.
the way that he wanted to this year. He did not shoot the ball the way that the Cavs expected him to when they signed him. But they are, there is no argument against this.
They are a better basketball team when he is on the floor. They are an elite level basketball team when he is on the floor. According to the metrics on NBA .
com in terms of on -off net rating, when Max Struce is on the floor, Chris (10:33.278) The Cavs have a net rating of plus 5 .6 when Max Struus is off the floor They have a net rating of minus 1 .
6. So if you do the math That’s about a seven point per 100 possession differential that is significant That’s that’s in line with what Donovan Mitchell was for the Cavs this past year. That’s in line It’s very similar.
It’s better than what Jared Allen was for the Cavs this year. It’s in line with what Dean Wade was in terms of on court impact and effectiveness. So all of the numbers say that when Max is on the floor, because of the style that he brings to them and because of the kind of player that he is, the Cavs are an elite level basketball team.
And that doesn’t mean that they’re going to stop looking for a potential upgrade at small forward if they feel like the price is right. They’re always going to try and upgrade. They’re always going to try and be aggressive.
But Max is a starting quality small forward. And that’s the best thing, given the resources that the calves have and the assets that the calves have, that is the best that they can do. And over the last two years, that’s the best that they’ve been able to do.
And that’s a pretty good option for them to have. They could do a lot worse. than Max Struz as their starter at small forward going into this year.
Ethan Sands (12:05.486) And comparing that to Yabu Selle, right? that’s the another question, follow up kind of question from a new from San Francisco was where in the rotation would Yabu Selle fit and is it worth the cost? Right. So that kind of gets into needing to know his story, needing to know that he was drafted number 16 overall in the 2016 NBA draft by the Celtics.
He was taking over guys like Pascal Siakam, De ‘John DeMurray. and rookie of the year, Malcolm Brockton, right? And then you look at what he was and wasn’t able to do when he was in the NBA, right? Cause he was playing alongside guys that were in the playoffs. They were playing alongside guys that were getting more minutes than him, that were having more productivity than him.
I mean, his, his role kind of got limited with Brad Stevens to being a body to throw out at. Chris (12:37.352) Mm -hmm.
Ethan Sands (13:01.742) other Eastern Conference superstars like Gianna Santana, Kumpo and Joel Embiid and guys that needed the bang on the inside and needed a little bit more weight to do those things. And sure, could that fall into a backup role for the Cavs? Yeah, but then you get into the money aspect of it that Chris has talked about.
And I think that’s where things start to get hazy. And I mean, you got to also think about why he’s not playing in the NBA anymore, right? After the 2018 -2019 season, Yabu Selle took Chris (13:08.391) Mm -hmm.
Ethan Sands (13:31.694) His talents to the Chinese Basketball Association for a season. And then he was playing for ASVEL of France’s Pro A league in 2020 and 2021.
Then La Liga and then Euroleague’s Real Madrid since the 2021 -2022 season. And he’s gotten better over the years. But as Chris has mentioned before, does this translate to the NBA? Does this translate? And does this, does this mean that he’s going to be a guy that the Cavs can count on or Chris (13:39.
62) Mm -hmm Ethan Sands (14:01.238) Is he going to be another guy like George Neang or Isaac Acora last year? Because that’s just, you don’t know if you’re going to be able to throw somebody in. And that’s what Chris was talking about earlier.
You have no idea until you get to see them, right? The Cavs didn’t expect George Neang and Max Trues to come in and shoot as poorly as they did last season, but they did. Now it’s a bounce back year. Are they going to be able to respond? And I think you have to be able to give a team like this is supposed to be Chris (14:15.
934) Right. Ethan Sands (14:31.464) so knit together.
Another shot to show that they can play in the system under Kenny Atkinson with new offensive sets, new offensive schemes that give them potentially better opportunities even away from the ball with the ball in their hands, whatever they may need, depending on the player. And I think that’s interesting to look at rather than just being like, all right, well, this guy had a viral hit on social media. We need to go get him.
Sure. Deserving of a contract, possibly. With the Cavs, not so much.
But I think the next question that we want to get into for the Cavs comes from our guy, the USA Air Force Sergeant. He said he’s from the Colorado Springs in Colorado. He says, I hear you two debating the first and second apron regularly.
I pride myself on my basketball knowledge, but I confess. I have no idea what those two things mean. Do you mind breaking them down in layman’s terms and explaining the definitions? Chris, did you say no? Chris (15:34.
183) Ugh. Chris (15:40.242) I just said, I mean, it’s just so nerdy and it’s so much numbers.
If you want to go through it, by all means, go through it. Like I would summarize it the best way that I can in saying that it prohibits, some stuff that teams can do when it comes to team building and like in layman’s terms, if a team is into the second apron. Ethan Sands (15:41.
932) You Chris (16:10.428) they are essentially hard capped and they can’t do anything in terms of making moves with their roster. That’s the best way that I can phrase it.
But like if you wanna go through all of the nerdy stuff that’s attached to it, by all means, you can go ahead and do that. Ethan Sands (16:30.798) Well, let me just give them a little bit of information about what’s going on when it comes to the numbers, right? So the salary cap for the 2024 -2025 season will be $140 .
588 million. It was also reported that the tax level has been set at $170 .814 million.
And then the first apron is now $178 .132 million. And the second apron is $1 Chris (16:38.
131) Yeah. Ethan Sands (16:59.982) $188 .
931 million. So basically, that’s a step up from where it was last year, which helps teams out a little bit because last season, the league set the salary cap at $136 .021 million and the tax level at $165 .
294 million. And the first apron level was Chris (17:17.098) you Ethan Sands (17:24.
046) 172 .346 million and the second apron level was 182 .794 million dollars, right? That’s where it’s been at and now it’s a little bit higher.
What does that mean, right? So there are now new limitations because of the new CBA and things of that nature that make it harder for teams to go out and team construct like Chris was talking about. Like the new CBA. goes as far as to removing the taxpayers mid -level exception entirely for teams that cross the second apron set at the number that I gave out earlier.
So there’s like, it. Chris (18:02.568) Right.
So here are the bullet points. I think this, this might be like easier, an easier way for people to understand it and digest it rather than like hitting them with a whole bunch of numbers. I think this might be easier, Ethan.
So the penalties for the first apron teams cannot acquire a player in a sign and trade. If that player keeps them above the apron, teams cannot sign a player waived during the regular season whose salary was over the mid level exception. And salary matching in trades must be within 110 % rather than the 125 % for the teams that are not above the apron.
When it comes to salary matching in trades, generally in the NBA, you have to have a 125 % match. But if you’re in the first apron, it goes down to 110%. And the penalties for the second apron are really, really steep.
Beyond the fact that they can’t use the taxpayer mid -level exception like Ethan was talking about, teams cannot use a trade exception. Teams cannot include cash in a trade. Teams cannot use a trade exception generated in a prior year.
First round picks seven years out are frozen and unable to be traded. And a team’s first round pick is moved to the end of the first round if they remain in the second apron for three out of five seasons, no matter where they finish in the standings. So, you know, high price teams like Boston, like Phoenix, like the Golden State Warriors, if they continue to be high price teams and stay in the second apron, like their ability to build out a roster around the high price players is really, really restrictive because they just don’t have access to the free agency stuff that other teams do.
and they don’t have the same flexibility when it comes to trades. And when it comes to draft picks, you know, that could be a problem as well. So essentially you want to stay away from those things if you can help it as a team until you have your roster set locked in for the foreseeable future and believe that there aren’t as many moves that you have to make around the margins to get to a championship level place.
Ethan Sands (20:23.062) And that’s why the Boston Celtics have spent so much money this off season and just going to get the same guys basically that they had on the roster already. They made barely any changes and said, all right, we were good enough to win the NBA championship.
Let’s reload. You’ll say, we don’t gotta re up, we gotta reload. So I think that’s a great example, Chris, of how people’s money can be spent if they feel like they have the roster that they need versus teams that Chris (20:26.
748) Yeah. Chris (20:33.191) Run it back.
Chris (20:51.774) Mm -hmm. Ethan Sands (20:52.
728) feel like they don’t have what they need, maybe the Cavs, and they still can’t go and get exactly what they want because they don’t want to go over. Obviously, Chris talked about that first apron and how the sign -in trade could be effective of that. That comes into play with Isaac Okoro and all of those things as well.
But the final question from our subtexters today is this. Which player that did not contribute much last year has the best chance to contribute this year. Isaac Okoro and George Nguyen can lose minutes.
I think one, that’s a good point. I feel like almost everybody’s gonna like have their minutes fluctuate a little bit this season. Kenny Atkinson talked about how he wanted to kind of spread the workload around a little bit differently than it had been done the last couple of years, especially like the high minute players.
Donovan Mitchell, said he’s not gonna like play him 25 minutes or anything, but it’s not gonna be as many as much throughout the season. And potentially that could help. Chris (21:59.
186) Yeah, my butt. My butt. I’ll believe it when I see it.
Ethan Sands (22:02.478) So I feel like that could help with injuries throughout the season depending on how they’re used but for me I know everybody wants to say Isaac Okoro right because you feel like he’s coming into a contract year he’s coming into if he signs the qualifying offer and is playing on that one -year contract he’s gonna have one season to show himself but to me in this offense I feel like we’ve talked about it a little bit potentially with how Kenny Atkinson is gonna run it I think Sam Merrill has the best opportunity to kind of step up because of how he’s going to be given a little bit more spacing, some sets that might be ran for him, kind of like how they ran sets for Stephen Curry. Obviously not exactly the same because he’s not the same level of shooter as Steph, but he has the same kind of game.
He uses the screens really well. He gets around the ball, is able to move off ball and things like that, that I feel like Kenny Atkinson is going to be able to implement into this. with a lot of really good screen setters, right? We’ve talked about on this podcast a lot about how great of a screener Jared Allen is.
You throw in guys, George Ne is a big body to throw around setting screens as well, right? So depending on who they have on the floor, what sets they run for me, I think this could be a good year for Sam Merrill to grow as a shooter if he remains on this Cavs team into the season. Chris, what do you think? Chris (23:26.11) We’ve talked about Sam.
I agree. think he can be a Kenny Atkinson type of player because Kenny wants to push the pace and he wants to shoot threes. If you look back to his time as head coach in Brooklyn, his teams were top 10 often in pace, top 10 often in three point attempts.
But I think there’s another one that a lot of people are overlooking and I totally understand why they are. And I don’t even know if he’s going to be on the roster. Like his, his salary is one.
that the Cavs could try and move if Isaac takes the qualifying offer and if they’re trying to avoid the luxury tax. He has such a low number that it would be easier for them to do that. But Ty Jerome, Ty played two games last year because of injury, but this organization likes Ty.
There’s a reason why they signed him last off season. They tried to sign him multiple times before they actually did sign him multiple years earlier than that. But he decided to stay with the Golden State Warriors during one of those off seasons.
Kobe Altman has known him for years. Kobe Altman has watched him for years. Donovan Mitchell basically grew up with Ty Jerome and there’s a relationship there.
When the Cavs were in Las Vegas for summer league, Ty was one of those players that was there. He was around. He was basically hand in hand with Darius Garland everywhere Darius went, Ty went at the time that Darius left the arena, Ty left the arena.
So there’s a relationship that Ty was able to build with a lot of his teammates last year, despite the fact that he wasn’t able to play and he wasn’t able to do basketball related activities because of that ankle issue that he was dealing with. All indications are that he’s going to be ready to go or the hope is. that he’ll be ready to go for training camp.
And we talk all the time, Ethan, about Kenny Atkinson has coached Jared Allen and he’s coached Karras Levert. No else he has coached? Ty Jerome. He’s coached Ty Jerome.
And stylistically, Ty is somebody who makes sense for this team, right? He has size so he can play the one or the two. He can play on the ball, off the ball. He can play alongside Darius.
Chris (25:47.718) or without Darius and he could run the team if he had to. And if the Cavs are going to be committed to trying to diversify their offense and try and not put as much pressure or playmaking responsibility on Darius Garland and Donovan Mitchell, know, Ty Jerome is somebody who can take some of those responsibilities.
He could shoot from the outside. He plays at a fast pace. He understands the Golden State Warriors system.
If Kenny Atkinson is going to implement some of those principles that he learned from Golden State. So I think there are a lot of signs that if Ty Jerome is on this team, he remains on this team through the trade deadline. I think he’s going to get an opportunity to be the backup point guard coming out of training camp.
And I do think that there are going to be times again, if he’s on the roster, that he’s going to be used at both guard spots. as kind of like a third ball handler or a third creator if he can stay healthy. Ethan Sands (26:53.
358) That’s so interesting to me. One, I feel like that’s a simple answer. One, because he played two games.
So talking about being able to contribute when you only played two games is a little bit hard. So you give him that, right? Sure, you can contribute a little bit more, play maybe five games this season, hopefully more than that. I think the battle between or the, not Ricky, but the.
.. The point guard backup battle between Craig Porter Jr.
and Ty Jerome is something that I’ve been kind of looking forward to. And I’m excited for training camp because obviously there’s been a little bit more hype around Craig Porter Jr. Obviously you go from a, undrafted free agent to a rookie that people had their eyes on.
People, some people I’ve talked to around the NBA wondered if he might make an all rookie team or whatever it might’ve been. And I think. Chris (27:25.
47) Bye. Ethan Sands (27:46.752) It’s so interesting to see, cause we, really haven’t gotten to see Ty’s own play that much since I’ve covered the team.
And I want to see what he brings. Obviously he has a little bit more size. He might have a little bit more passing ability and things of that nature.
But I think Craig Porter Jr has shown himself enough to where that will be a competition to show yourself. Right? Obviously Donovan Mitchell and Darius Garland are going to be the one A one B point guards, depending on what the situation is, just like. Jared Allen, Evan Mobley are gonna be 1A, 1B centers, depending on who’s on the floor.
I just think, and I think it’s interesting that you say that Ty Jerome could come out of camp as the backup point guard off the bench and not Craig Porter Jr. just because of what we’ve seen already. But I definitely think it’ll be something that’s worth paying attention to and keeping eyes on going forward, especially because some people are already expecting a breakout season from Craig in year two.
which I think might be pushing it a little bit. And that’s coming from me, who we know. I vouched for Craig Porter Jr.
a little bit, but I think it’s gonna be definitely something to keep an eye on. And I’m looking forward to that, especially what lineups Kenny Atkinson puts together when it comes to the preseason games and what they might show because this is all a numbers game, Chris, and we don’t even know who’s on the official roster yet. Chris (28:50.
686) Okay. Chris (29:11.954) Right.
And the other thing is, we don’t, we don’t have the greatest understanding when it comes to the backend of the roster about the things that, Kenny Atkinson is going to value versus JB Bickerstaff. Because if you think back to last year when Craig Porter Jr. was there, like there were certain lineups where JB did not want to play Craig because of some size limitations.
There were certain combinations. in the back court that JB did not want to use with Craig. Like oftentimes, it wasn’t every time, but oftentimes Craig’s majority of his playing time came when Darius Garland wasn’t out there.
He didn’t want to play Darius and Craig together. He was a little bit worried about the defensive limitations. He was worried about the size limitations.
Is that going to be an effective deal breaker for Kenny Atkinson? Is he going to? look at the size limitations the same kind of way? Is he going to look at the defensive limitations the same kind of way, or is he going to make more lineup decisions based on offense and upside and stuff like that? We don’t know that. The thing that we do know is that there are seven players that are the best players on this roster. Whether it was Kenny Atkinson as the coach, J .
B. Bickerstaff as the coach, James Borrego as the coach. or Johnny Bryant or Mike Onori or any of these other guys, those were going to be the top seven.
Like it’s not going to change. What’s going to change potentially is like the eight, nine, 10, the backend of the rotation and how Kenny handles those kinds of things. But anybody that coaches this team is going to play Donovan Mitchell a whole bunch, right? And the top seven guys in this rotation are always going to play a bunch.
The question is, how does he feel about Isaac Kikoro and the offensive limitations? How does he feel about Dean Wade and what he does both offensively and defensively and how he can impact games? How does he feel about Jaylen Tyson as a rookie playing consistent minutes in his first year when he’s trying to learn how to consistently play off the ball? How does he feel about Ty Jerome versus Craig Porter Jr.? Chris (31:25.298) The one benefit that Tide does have over Craig, and I don’t know if this is going to come into play for Kenny as much as it would for somebody like JB.
And we got to know JB for many, many years and he looked at things a certain kind of way and we got to understand how he looked at those things. But Tide Jerome is a two position player. Craig Porter Jr.
is a one position player. He’s not playing two guard. He’s not playing off the ball.
That’s just, that’s just not where he is in his career at this stage of his development. Ty Jerome can play the one or the two. Ty Jerome can play on or off the ball.
Ty Jerome is a threat all the way out to the three point line, unlike Craig, who is still developing that area of his game. So there are some advantages that Ty is going to have just built in from a coaching perspective because of the different lineups and combinations. that I think Kenny is going to believe that he can use with somebody like Ty as opposed to Craig.
Ethan Sands (32:31.052) That’s interesting, Chris, because how crazy would it be if Jaylon Tyson was thrown into that mix of being a backup point guard, right? Because when he was at his last place, when he was at Cal, he was the point guard. He was handling the rock.
He was doing that. And he was thrown into some of those situations during summer league. And Kenny Atkinson got to watch that kind of unfold and got to see what he was able to do with the ball in his hand.
but also being able to see him in different roles with Craig Porter Jr. running the offense himself. And obviously that’s going to look a little different potentially with Donovan Mitchell or Darian Garland doing that.
But how many, how much minutes, how many minutes is he going to get when those different lineups? How is he going to fare in training camp? Is his size, is his maturity coming out of college going to be able to impact him positively when it comes to this roster construction and what’s going to go on? Chris (33:04.264) Mm -hmm Ethan Sands (33:27.35) I think that’s definitely something to look forward to.
think more so, like you mentioned, it’s definitely the bottom half of the rotation that we got to look at for the Cavs and whether or not it’ll be Jaylon Tyson, Ty Jerome, or Craig Porter Jr. as the backup point guard. I think that’s really interesting.
And I think it’s something that I’m excited for, maybe more so than deciding in between the minutes that Donovan Mitchell is going to play to begin the season. But Chris, I think that’s something that Chris (33:43.506) Mm -hmm.
Ethan Sands (33:57.462) a lot of the fans are looking forward to, right? Because there’s always gonna be the, where’s the rookie gonna compare to Craig Porter Jr. last year? But also he doesn’t necessarily play the same position, can, but is might be fit better.
Where does he fit? That’s the main question for Jaylon Tyson. Where does he fit for this roster, for this group of guys? And I think he can play a lot of different positions. So I think it’s helpful.
Chris (34:00.498) Yeah. Chris (34:26.
407) I would agree. And that’s one of the reasons why the Cavs drafted him. That’s one of the things that was appealing about him to the Cavs is that even if he didn’t show it initially as a rookie, they felt like, you know, moving forward when it comes to team building stuff, when it comes to lineup construction stuff, he can fit a lot of different roles.
And that’s one of the things that they like about Caris Laverne. If they need him to be the primary ball handler for the second unit, he can do that. If they need him to be the primary scorer for the second unit, he can do that.
If they need him to be a defensive stopper in a certain kind of lineup construction, he can do that. If they need him, you know, to take a step back and be a secondary playmaker while playing alongside Donovan Mitchell or Darius Garland, he can do that as well. So that’s one of the things that always appealed to the Cavs about Caris when they traded for him.
And when they decided to resign him, and I think the Cavs are looking at Jaylen Tyson as the long -term eventual replacement for Keris LaVert as a guy who can fill a lot of different roles and he can be effective in a lot of different ways and he can play a multitude of positions. That can be very, very beneficial. The other thing is when this team gets really, really expensive.
and it’s about to get really really expensive especially at the high end if they have somebody who can do caris laverti type things making half the money that caris did that’s a real benefit to salary cap flexibility and other things that they can do from a team building perspective. Ethan Sands (36:17.048) Yep, and I’m glad we’ve touched on that before with the Caris Levert situation and his contract.
Chris (36:22.622) Shoot man, it might be like three quarters of the money that that Garrus is making actually if my math is correct. Ethan Sands (36:30.
594) math. We’ve done a lot of that on this podcast. But I think the conversation for whether or not Karis and Jaylon Tyson are comparable and whether Jaylon will be his eventual replacement is something that we’ll find out probably this season.
A lot of things could happen this year, Chris. This might be a big year for the Cavs if you haven’t heard already. But with all that being said, I think That’ll wrap up today’s episode of the Wine and Gold Talk Podcast.
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