CLEVELAND, Ohio -- In this episode of the Wine and Gold Talk podcast, the hosts answer questions from listeners about the Cavs , including topics such as the qualifying offer made to Emoni Bates, potential roster moves, the team’s health, and trade ideas involving Darius Garland. More Cavs coverage How does Jarrett Allen’s extension affect the Cavs? Wine and Gold Talk podcast ‘Anchor of our core group’: Cavs make Jarrett Allen extension official True to himself: Kyrie Irving’s Dallas journey with Mike Curtis — Wine and Gold Talk podcast Takeaways: The recent tornado in Bay Village had a significant impact on the lives of Ethan Sands and Chris Fedor, but they were fortunate to have minimal damage and regain power. The Cleveland Cavaliers made a two-way qualifying offer to Emoni Bates, indicating their commitment to his development, but he is likely to spend most of his second season in the G-League.
The Cavs are currently under the first apron by $10 million, and while they may consider waiving Sam Merrill to save $1 million, they value his potential fit in Kenny Atkinson’s run-and-gun offense. The Cavs are cautious about going into the luxury tax or first apron and may look to make minor moves to avoid it, potentially trading players like Ty Jerome. The Cavs’ roster construction has weaknesses, particularly in the lack of a two-way wing, but they have strengths in Darius Garland and Donovan Mitchell in the backcourt and rim protection from Evan Mobley and Jarrett Allen.
The Cavs’ ceiling as currently constructed is likely a playoff appearance, potentially as a three or four seed in the Eastern Conference, but they still have room for improvement. Kenny Atkinson’s involvement with the French national team and his use of two bigs in their lineup could provide insights into his offensive approach with the Cavs. The Cavs’ health is currently good, with Darius Garland, Jarrett Allen, and Evan Mobley all reported to be healthy and in good shape.
Trade ideas involving Darius Garland, such as one with the San Antonio Spurs, are unlikely to be accepted by the Cavs unless they receive a better player in return. The Cavs value Darius Garland and believe in his potential, and they do not see a trade offer that would be worth giving him up. Listen using the player below: You can also listen using your preferred podcast app.
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Read the automated transcript of today’s podcast below. Because it’s a computer-generated transcript, it may contain errors and misspellings. Ethan Sands What up, Cavs Nation? I’m your host, Ethan Sands, and I’m back with another episode of the Wine and Gold Talk Podcast.
I’m joined by your favorite beat reporter, Chris Fedor. And Chris, it’s been a hectic week when it comes to the weather and everything going on. How are you doing? Tell the listeners what you’ve had going on.
Chris (00:33.366) Yeah, man, it has been really, really wild. as everybody knows, a tornado ripped through the Bay Village area and that’s where I live with my wife and my son.
And, you know, we’ve been fortunate because we still have power. we just don’t have internet. We don’t have cable at this point in time.
And then there was a 15 to 20 foot tree in our front yard that the wind took down. it fell luckily for us. It didn’t fall on the house.
A lot of people in our area here in Bay Village totally understand way worse than us. There are a bunch of houses in the area that have trees on them through the roof. So we were lucky.
The tree that we had in our front yard fell forward into the sidewalk street area. And I just had to get together with my neighbor and chop it up with a chainsaw and move it to the tree lawn. But You know, know a lot of people have it way worse than me.
So my thoughts and my prayers are going out to everybody who is dealing with this. I always thought that the lake being so close to the lake here in Bay Village was supposed to protect us from tornadoes. But that was not the case, man.
When I was napping at the time, Ethan, and my phone went off with the emergency alert. And initially I just thought it was, okay, this is a storm warning or it’s an amber alert or something along those lines. So I rolled over, I looked at my phone and it said tornado warning.
And I was like, what is going on? Because at the time that I fell asleep, I took a nap at the same time that my son did. It was fine outside. We were outside earlier in the day.
We were playing. But man, apparently it ripped through quickly and it did a whole lot of damage. But like I said, the fact that we still have power, very, very fortunate because I know a lot of people are dealing without it right now.
Ethan Sands (02:35.119) Yeah, and it was like a torrential downpour over here. I was over here trying to watch the Olympics as they were going on.
And I just looked to my left and see all the trees. Like I saw things flying through the air that shouldn’t be in the air. So yeah, it definitely was a wild time.
But I know that everybody that was in our subtext, I know I was very thankful that you and your family are safe, your house is safe and those kinds of things. But. Chris (02:38.
187) Yes. Chris (02:48.851) Yeah.
Ethan Sands (03:01.957) We do have to still get into some things when it comes to the calves. And thankfully that we have your hotspot, your internet, internet’s kind of hanging in there for us to do this podcast.
We are going to get into another epi...
No jinx is over here. No jinx is over here. We’re going to get into the another episode of Hey Chris.
So we’re going to get right into it. Chris (03:16.33) Fingers crossed.
Don’t jinx it, no? Don’t jinx it. Ethan Sands (03:30.885) First question coming from.
A no -named subtexter says, hey Chris, with the qualifying offer the Cavs made to Imani Bates, does that mean he will no longer be a two -way player? He will have a roster spot. So the answer to that is no, because the offer that the Cavs made to Imani Bates was a two -way qualifying offer. Chris (04:00.
884) Yeah, that’s right. and I think Amani is a player that obviously a lot of fans are interested in. The Cavs are committed to his development and his growth as, as a player and as a person.
and I still get the sense in talking to people around the league and with the organization that their belief is Amani would be best suited to spend a lot more time in the G league, before he gets an opportunity in the NBA. And Look, Ethan, if this was four or five years ago and the organization was in a different place, they were still in a rebuild. They were still trying to figure out what they had.
They were giving an opportunity to a lot of young players to play through their mistakes and get meaningful playing time because they felt like that was really, really valuable for their development. Then maybe it would be a different situation. but this is a team that is coming off back to back playoff appearances.
This is a team that has a bunch of salary committed to being good and competing and being on the same level as Boston and Philadelphia and Milwaukee and New York and some of the other top teams in the Eastern Conference. And there just isn’t room. This isn’t a training ground anymore.
And there just isn’t room for somebody like Imani who has so much work to do at both ends of the floor just to prove that he can be an NBA player. all the indications that I have gotten are that this organization still is committed to Imani and his development. And that’s why they made that qualifying offer to him, that two -way qualifying offer, but he’s going to spend a majority of his second season in the NBA with the Cleveland charge.
And that’s where this organization believes he is best suited. And that’s where this organization believes that he belongs at this point in his development. Ethan Sands (06:02.
193) All right, going on to the next question. your reporting, the Cavs are $10 million in change under the first apron. If Acura were to sign the qualifying offer, they would be over the apron.
Sam Merrill does not have a guaranteed contract. Can you see them waiving him to save the $1 million? I don’t, to me, Chris, I don’t think the Cavs are going to be that worried about a million dollars. One, two.
I don’t think that, well, maybe, but it’s definitely something they would consider. But I don’t think Sam Mero is someone that they would easily get rid of, especially because of how they want to run the run and gun offense with Kenny Atkinson and how he can bring that kind of level of his game to that. I think Sam Mero might be the ideal player in Kenny Atkinson’s Chris (06:33.
12) You join? Ethan Sands (06:57.879) Offensive system, right? Especially with how much he likes to get around screens and run the floor and do those nitty -gritty things on the offensive end. Sure, there will be liabilities on the defensive end.
We all know that, but what he brings to a potential Kenny Atkinson -ran squad could be beneficial for them. Sure, they would have to consider where the tax is, the apron is, but I don’t know if they would ultimately make the decision. to wave Sam Mero just to stay under that threshold.
Ethan Sands (07:43.589) What do you think, Chris? Chris (07:46.688) So here’s the thing that I would say, I don’t know which player it would be that the Cavs would look at moving off of their money.
I think there are some things that Kenny Atkinson has to figure out. And I think there are things that we’re still trying to figure out covering this team about who Kenny is going to lean on, which player Kenny feels like belongs at the back end of his every night rotation. When you’re around a coach for a long time, the way that we were around J .
B. Biggerstaff. There was an understanding of which players he trusted, which players he was going to lean on, which players he was going to give consistent minutes to.
We’re still trying to figure that out with Kenny. And I think Kenny is trying to figure that out with this roster. I think there is logic that points to Sam Merrill being a fit on this team, especially given the kind of style that Kenny wants to use.
Especially given some of the movement based stuff that he’s probably going to implement coming from the Golden State Warriors And I think he feels like he can use Sam Merrill in a similar kind of way To some of the guys from the Golden State Warriors who did a lot of their damage moving off of screens back cuts Spacing the floor gravity stuff like that. And if you go back to Kenny’s time in Brooklyn He wanted to play fast And he wanted to shoot threes. That was something that the nets did.
So logic would tell you that Sam Merrill is a fit in that. This organization likes Sam. They believe in Sam.
They see the value of him, especially when it comes to his three point shot. Multiple people inside this organization were wondering at various points last year, Ethan, why JP Bickerstaff wasn’t using Sam Merrill more. So I think.
I’m not going to sit here and say that he’s safe, but I’m going to sit here and say that I think he would be somebody that Kenny Atkinson would see value to and more value than just a salary dump. In saying that, if Isaac Okoro takes the qualifying offer and the Cavs are into the tax and into the first apron, they are going to do what they need to do to get out of that. Chris (10:10.
486) do not want to start their tax clock this year. Not yet. I think they want their repeater tax clock to start when the extensions kick in for this roster.
there would be, they would not see value to being into the tax by like one or $2 million. Their thinking is if we’re gonna go into the tax, if we’re gonna go into the first apron, we’ve got to go in. We’ve got to make it worth it.
So I think they would look at opportunities to trade Tai Jerome or salary dumped Tai Jerome. I think they would consider the possibility of Sam Merrill. I think they would look at various options around the margins and see if there are trades or expendable pieces on this roster that they could execute prior to the trade deadline to get them out of that situation.
So I think they totally understand what their salary cap situation is. think they totally understand what Isaac taking the qualifying offer would mean for that. I think they also understand, or they believe that they’ve made multiple variations of a multi -year deal to Isaac that they think would be beneficial to Isaac and that they think is fair to Isaac.
that if he were to take that, they may have to work some salary cap gymnastics as well. But if Isaac comes back to this roster in some capacity and it puts them to the first apron to the luxury tax, they are going to work their way. They are going to do minor moves to get themselves out of that position.
I just don’t know. I just don’t have a great grasp yet on what that would be. But I think Ty Jerome would be in danger of losing his spot, especially with the emergence of Craig Porter Jr.
last year. Ethan Sands (12:17.091) And Chris, I think it’s important to also ask more a little bit about Isaac Okoro’s situation.
And this next question from subtext Jacob of Northfield goes into that a little bit. light of our proximity to the luxury tax, should the Cavs consider pulling the qualifying offer back from Okoro and consider using the space for other players? Is that allowed? Like pulling a qualifying offer? Chris (12:47.22) Yeah, you can definitely do that.
But there’s just nobody out there in this market that is worth doing that for. We’re at the tail end of free agency here. Training camp is about six weeks away in the NBA and there just aren’t a lot of appealing options out there in terms of free agents that the Cavs could just go sign.
Like all of sudden, if they get theoretical money available to them, who are they going to use that? and what kind of player would that be and what kind of impact would that player have? We’ve talked about it so many different times throughout the course of this off season, Ethan. The free agency class was weak to begin with. And now you’re talking about taking bottom of the barrel guys in an already weak free agency class.
I still think the Cavs would look at Isaac Okoro, the possibility of bringing him back as the best option to them when it comes to free agency. Ethan Sands (13:55.601) Alright Chris, and the next question comes from Scott in Greensboro, North Carolina.
He says, what are your biggest concerns with the Cavs roster as currently constructed? What is their ceiling? As currently constructed? Basically just how they’re gonna be able to work in this new system for Kenny Atkinson, right? Because obviously changing gear as changing coaches can be drastic for some teams, but also understanding that They need to grow in an offensive manner. Like, do they have the firepower to do that? Will Donovan Mitchell be playing by himself again this season, basically? Will he have help? Will Darius Garland, Max Struz, Evan Mobley, George Niang? Will those guys step up on the offensive end? What is their ceiling? To me, in the Eastern Conference, their ceiling would probably be the four, three, four seed. Chris (14:30.
229) Mm. Ethan Sands (14:52.407) something happens to other teams in the league.
But I think the farthest they’re going to be able to get with this currently constructed roster is another Eastern Conference semi -finals appearance. And that’s their ceiling to me, Chris. What do you think? Chris (15:08.
714) Well, I think when it comes to the weaknesses of this roster or the questions about this roster, there are obviously some weak points and one of those remains a two -way wing that is on the same level or close to the same level as Paul George for Philadelphia, Giannis for Milwaukee, the Jays in Boston, OGN and Obi and McHale Bridges. That is the hardest thing to fill. That is the hardest thing to find in today’s NBA, but it’s a weak point for this team.
The strengths of this team, Darius Garland, Donovan Mitchell together in the backcourt, 48 minutes of true rim protection with Evan Mobley and Jared Allen. But they just, they don’t have the high quality two -way wings to match up with some of the elite teams in the Eastern Conference. That’s been the case for a number of years.
It’s something that they’ve tried to remedy. They’ve used resources. They’ve used assets.
They’ve tried free agency. They’ve tried trades. They’ve tried the draft.
And we’ll see if Max Drus is a little bit better in terms of productivity than he was last year and see how he potentially holds up in a seven game series against whatever team it may be that has that caliber win. But I think if you stack the Cavs against the top tier teams in the NBA, there is a clear difference in talent at that particular spot compared to Cleveland. And there’s no way around that.
Beyond that, Ethan, the other questions that I have, because like, I don’t look at this roster and say, okay, there are a bunch of different holes that the Cavs need to fill. And if they don’t fill those holes, they’re going to be in a bad place. I certainly think there are positions that they could upgrade if the price is right, if it makes sense for them.
But my questions more are, okay, Darius and Donovan last year together did not look all that great. Was that because there are stylistic conflicts between the two guys? Was that because JB Bickerstaff and the offense that he ran was very Chris (17:35.318) unappealing, was very predictable, was not diverse enough, or was that because Darius Garland just had a really, really bad season and if Darius is going to have a bad season individually, it’s going to make him and Donovan and that combination look pretty poor.
So I’m looking at how do those guys function together within Kenny Atkinson’s new offense and his new system. And then we’ve talked about this a bunch of other times, just the combination of Jared Allen and Evan Mobley. Does it consistently work? Is it the kind of combination that will allow this offense to be at its peak, at its maximum and be a top 10 offense in the NBA on a consistent basis? Those are things that I question.
It’s more about how this team is constructed. more so than a bunch of different holes that need to be filled with a bunch of additions in a calendar year or something along those lines. Ethan Sands (18:49.
753) Alright Chris, getting into some of the extra questions we got because we had some extra time because fans were able to add due to the extra technical difficulties or electrical difficulties that we had going on. From Dave from Tucson, he says, let’s talk about Marcus Morris Sr. does he fit culturally and schematically? Schematically? Sure.
I could say that Marcus Morris Sr. would fit for this team. Culturally? Nah.
mean, me and Chris have talked about it on this podcast before, right? Like, the things that were said about Jared Allen, the guy who just got an extension for this team, who’s a member of the core four of this team, somebody who played 81 straight games, including the playoffs before he was injured. After the season, Marcus Morris Sr., if you don’t know, Chris (19:37.
717) Mm. Ethan Sands (19:47.227) took to the radio to kind of throw some shade and say that he would have played if he was in the same situation as Jared Allen, kind of leaning into the Jared Allen soft kind of category.
He didn’t say those words, right? But that was the culture and the things and the stigmas that were placed on Jared Allen after the New York Knicks series. And to go out and say that and kind of reiterate those same things after a year where what he had, where he was one of the most dominant, one of the most efficient players for the Cavs. Also, probably one of the most indispensable players that we’ve mentioned on this podcast before.
Like, to say those things, you can’t really have somebody like that come back to the locker room. Especially when you know how much Donovan Mitchell messes with Jared Allen and wanted him to be around as well. Chris (20:38.
518) Unless Marcus Morris Sr. has a conversation with people inside the organization, including Jared Allen, to clear those things up. Because the thing that we do understand, Ethan, is that sometimes families have disputes and basketball teams oftentimes are looked at as families.
They spend so much time together. They can get on each other’s nerves. They can love each other.
They can laugh with each other. They can yell at each other. But you can patch up those things.
So if Marcus Morris senior takes a step forward and says, Hey, you know, I was stepping out of line. I regret that this isn’t what I meant. Whatever the case may be.
There’s always that possibility that you mend those fences. the other thing that I’ll say is that from everything that I’ve been told, this is going to be up to Kenny Atkinson and what he thinks he needs. for that proverbial last roster spot on the NBA team.
Who does he trust? Is there, is there a Tristan Thompson type player out there? Tristan obviously had a relationship with JB Bickerstaff and it worked. Ed Davis, remember him a couple of years ago, JB Bickerstaff used, wanted the last roster spot, the proverbial last roster spot to go to Ed Davis so that he could have a leader, a trusted leader in the locker room. an extension of the coaching staff, somebody who spoke the same language as JV Bicker’s staff.
So I’m told that, you know, this front office is going to get together with Kenny Atkinson when he returns from France. They’re going to have a conversation about, there any players out there with ties to Kenny, either from his days in Atlanta, Brooklyn, Golden State, that would make sense to fill that roster spot. and be some combination of maybe the guy can play, maybe the guy can add playable depth, but he’s a locker room lieutenant for Kenny.
He’s somebody who can teach some of these guys the system. He’s somebody who can set a professional attitude with the culture and stuff like that. I don’t know who that would be.
I don’t know who fits that profile. Maybe it is Tristan Thompson. Chris (23:04.
456) Maybe it is Marcus Morris senior because of some things that, that Kenny has connections to around the league that also tie back to Marcus Morris senior. maybe it is somebody else that we haven’t talked about. Maybe it’s, you know, one of these guys that’s on the French national team that he wants to bring to America.
I don’t know. but it is going to be the front office having a conversation with Kenny about that. The other layer to this, when it comes to Marcus Morris senior specifically, and you know, in the NBA, I’ve been taught to never say never.
have my doubts on the whole Marcus Morris senior thing, but at this point, I mean, the Cavs really can’t be all that choosy because the options out there in free agency aren’t very appealing. So they may be able to get somebody who has good leadership qualities, toughness, competitiveness, but they can’t really play. And that would be a problem, wasting that spot on somebody who just can’t play.
So Marcus Morris Sr. at the very least, we know he can play. We know he can help on the court.
He helped in the playoffs at various points. So given all the different options that are available to them, if Marcus happens to be the guy that they believe can provide the most in terms of on court playing ability, then it certainly would be something that they would consider if they feel like he would be a fit in Kenny’s system. If they feel like the fences can be mended, if they feel like he is still a good fit in the locker room.
There are a lot of ifs when it comes to this, but at the end of the day, in summary, like, this is the proverbial last spot on a roster, and the role that this guy has is not going to be significant, and it’s certainly not going to be the difference between the Cavs being a playoff team, not being a playoff team. Chris (25:25.194) being a top four seed in the Eastern Conference and not being a top four seed in the Eastern Conference.
There’s a reason why there is no rush to sign this particular player and there’s a reason why this guy’s going to get a veteran minimum contract, whoever it may Ethan Sands (25:43.183) And we’ve talked a little bit about Kenny Atkinson to this point, right? And the systems that he’s going to run and the opportunity that he has to work with new players, new pieces in the Cavs organization, obviously. But he also just is out there with the French national team, as you mentioned, Chris, and is working with two bigs in a lineup, right? Wemby, Victor Wemanyama and Rudy Gobert.
Chris (25:54.653) I dunno. Ethan Sands (26:09.
553) The French national team just advanced over Germany and this is gonna be the first time that the France national basketball men’s team has won a medal. It doesn’t matter, bronze, silver, gold, since 1996. So obviously there are a lot of coaches on that team and all those things, but Kenny Atkinson is in France right now helping the French national team.
making an impact, making a difference. And I think that could be a positive sign for the Cavs. You also mentioned him wanting to bring some French players over, potentially wanting to just see what happens with that.
I think that’s interesting because you’ve also noticed that Rudy Gobert hasn’t started in every single game, even though he’s an NBA defensive player of the year four times over. So it’s interesting to think about how these different rules and Chris (26:56.629) Right.
Ethan Sands (27:05.499) things like that can impact them, but also just knowing how a different coach can impact what players are doing and those kinds of things. So I think that’s just something to keep an eye on when it comes to one, the Olympics, and two, how Kenny Atkinson is helping out with that team and what he’s bringing to the offensive -minded approach with two bigs, especially with guys like Rudy and Wembe.
I know Rudy is a non -shooter. Wemby might be considered more of a shooter with what he’s able to do from beyond the arc in his rookie season. Chris (27:41.
792) was actually going to crack a joke on social media the other day when they took Rudy out of the starting lineup and I was going to say something along the lines of, Kenny Atkinson playing a role in breaking up the two big front court, is this a sign of things to come for the Cavs? But I just don’t think enough people would have taken it as a lighthearted joke the way that I would have meant it. So I just kind of stayed away from Ethan Sands (28:08.037) I think that might have been smart.
mean, Rudy Gobert didn’t even start in the semi -finals game today. So it was..
. No. Chris (28:12.
542) No. Well, it doesn’t make sense to start him. And the paint’s a little bit too cluttered.
They don’t operate the same kind of way offensively. He really just gets in the way of Wemby. And if you have Wemby who can do a lot of the things from a defensive standpoint in terms of making an impact on that end of the floor, then you do a different lineup variation.
And that’s one of the things that I love about Olympic basketball, is there...
It’s not so much about politics, right? It’s not so much about name. It’s not so much about contracts or anything along those lines. It’s what is going to give us the best opportunity to win this game in this particular matchup.
You know, at the beginning of everything with team USA, everybody was freaking out over the Jason Tatum thing. And that led to a 26 point win for the United States. So it was clearly a move.
that benefited them at both ends of the floor. And yet all anybody wanted to talk about was, my God, what is Steve Kerr doing? How could he possibly bench Jason Tatum? How could he not use Jason Tatum? Well, he’s got 12 NBA guys. It’s a 40 minute game.
He can’t play all 12 unless it’s a blowout and garbage time and you can throw guys out there at the end of it. But These are the best coaches in the NBA all together on team. It’s Ty Lue.
It’s Eric Spolstra. It’s Steve Kerr. You think you know more than them? Like, come on.
Like, it is possible that these guys understand what their offense needs, what their defense needs, what kind of fit is required in a particular matchup against a particular opponent. And just because a guy is a great NBA player, he’s also on a team with other great NBA players. Kevin Durant was coming back from an injury.
So did you want Jason Tatum to take the minutes of Lebron James? Did you want him to take the minutes of Kevin Durant? Like, there’s only so much room to fit all of these pieces in and Rudy not playing for the French national team doesn’t mean that he stinks. Doesn’t mean he doesn’t have any value. Doesn’t mean that he was a Chris (30:37.
798) a unworthy defensive player of the year, it just means in this kind of setup with that team, with their roster makeup against that opponent, whatever the opponent may be, there is more of a benefit to using other guys not named Rudy Gobert. And I love the fact that these coaches just don’t care about the noise. They don’t care about the backlash.
They don’t care about the politics. They’re just trying to put the roster in place and the starting five and the group of backups that’s going to give the team the best opportunity to win. And maybe there are going to be other matchups that are more beneficial for somebody like Rudy Gobert.
Maybe there are going to be more matchups down the road, like was the case for Jason Tatum. Who knows? Maybe when he gets into fall trouble in the gold medal game and then. Team France has to go to Rudy Gobert a little bit more.
That’s a possibility. Everybody has a specific role. And, and I just think like the consternation over minute allocation, lineups, usage, all that kind of stuff is hilarious to me.
It’s absolutely hilarious. Ethan Sands (31:59.061) I just want to touch on the point that in the gold medal game Rudy Gobert played five minutes or sorry not gold medal game semi -finals game.
He played just five minutes. So that’s definitely something to look at going forward Chris (32:08.703) Yeah.
Yes. Because, because they have somebody that is better than him. And he also happens to be a top 10 player in the entire NBA already at this stage of his career, maybe top 15, whatever you want to rank him.
When you have Victor Wimboniama on that team, and he’s one of the leaders of that team, and he was one of the most important players of that team, he’s one of the best players on that team. And he plays the same position as Rudy. and there’s only so much room on the floor, you’re not gonna bench Wemby in favor of Rudy.
And they learned early in this tournament that Rudy and Wemby together just created more problems rather than solutions. So the less appealing player is going to get less time. It’s logical to me.
Ethan Sands (33:06.001) Alright, next question from a subtexter is, do you know if the core four are healthy? Because last season was riddled with injuries, I’m hoping that this year will be different. Well, last year the only player that started the season injured was Jared Allen.
And I believe Jared Allen is fully healthy from his rib injury that he suffered in the first round against the Orlando Magic via elbow. But I think Darius Garland is probably potentially in some of the best shape that I’ve seen him in since I started covering the beat. Donovan Mitchell has been in the gym, like we’ve mentioned on this podcast, much sooner than we thought he might have been with his knee and ankle injury that he suffered in the last game that he was out for in the last game against the Boston Celtics.
I just think, and Evan Mobley obviously has been doing his thing. He’s been grinding the entire off season. I think this is a team that is gonna be pretty healthy, if not at 100%, when it comes to the start of the season.
That is being said on August 8th. Obviously anything can happen in these workouts, anything can happen. So I don’t wanna jinx myself or jinx them, but as of right now, I believe they’re healthy.
Chris, have you heard anything different? Chris (34:28.144) No, when I saw Darius Garland in Las Vegas and I had a conversation with him, he said he was healthy. He said he was in the gym.
He said he was working on various things. Jared Allen told me that it took him a little bit of time after the season ended to recover from his rib issue. People close to him, sources close to him mentioned the same thing.
But when I saw him, he was walking fine. He was working out with the team. He was practicing before the practice that the summer league team was holding at various points.
So from everything that I’ve heard, haven’t been any limitations on any of these guys when it comes to their off season work. But I certainly think it’s something that the Cavs have to be at least aware of going into this year. trying to find a way to be more healthy.
And some of it’s just bad injury luck and it happens to all teams around the NBA. But I also think this organization would be wise just to do a deep dive on some of these injuries of the past couple of years and see if there’s anything that they can do differently when it comes to training camp, when it comes to recovery for these guys, when it comes to a workout regimen. Just like what are the reasons for these continued problems? Because we seem to have a lot of these conversations, Ethan, about, what would it have been like for the Cavs if this, this, this, and this? Or, the Cavs only had their starting lineup for this many games, this many minutes.
So I would hope that it’s something that this organization reevaluated this off season just to see if there is anything deeper. that they could fix anything controllable that they can fix to try and be a healthier group than what it was last year. Ethan Sands (36:35.
077) Alright Chris, I got into the last question from our subtexters and it’s a long one because we saved the longest for last. Stick with me on this one and let’s get through it. Alright, for Hey Chris, from Anu in San Francisco, he says, what do you think of this trade idea that was thrown around on the internet? San Antonio receives Darius Garland, Cleveland receives Kelden Johnson, Chris (36:43.
094) Let’s go. Ethan Sands (37:05.041) helps Cavs in small forward.
I have heard the Cavs liked him in the past but went with Dylan Windler that draft. The Cavs would also receive Zach Collins, Malachi Brenham, and three first round selections. Also, Johnson or Collins or Brenham come off the books before Garland and could be attractive trade pieces in the future.
Their contracts probably help the apron and or tax situation. Johnson & Brenham 34 -36 % on 3 point attempts. The pushback is probably that this trade does not get you in the tier with Boston or New York or Philadelphia.
What are your thoughts? For me? I don’t think this trade makes a whole lot of sense for San Antonio. Just because they already went and got Chris Paul, so they have their point guard. Obviously, Chris Paul wanted to go somewhere where he felt like he was going to get minutes on a consistent basis.
Obviously, Darius Garland would take away from that. But I think there are good points here, right? Zach Collins helps back up the bigs. Malatai brings in an upside player on a team -friendly contract and a bench player.
And obviously, the three first -round selections, because we know the Cavs have...
minimum to no draft capital in their pockets for the next few years. So Chris, what do you think about this trade situation and your takeaways from it? Chris (38:38.934) I think the idea of Darius Garland and Victor Wimbanyama together and the idea of Darius Garland to the San Antonio Spurs, I just don’t think it’s going to quiet down anytime soon.
Chris Paul is there. He is going to be the starting point guard, but he’s also old and it’s a one -year contract for him. So they just don’t have that floor general to pair up with Victor Wimbanyama into the future.
And I just don’t think the Darius to San Antonio stuff is going to die down anytime soon. Because I do think San Antonio really, really likes Darius. think they really value him.
And I think they understand how much somebody like Wemby would benefit from playing alongside somebody like Darius. So if Darius and his camp get to a point where they do want to request a trade, I would keep San Antonio. in the front of your mind.
At the same time, I think there are San Antonio type trades that the Cavs would say yes to. Some kind of offers that the Spurs could put together that would appeal to the Cavs. Kelden Johnson with Malachi Branham, unproven Malachi Branham.
It’s just even with draft capital going back, that to me is not a trade that the Cavs would say yes to. If San Antonio would be willing to move Devin Vassel, okay, then I think there’s a real conversation between the two sides. But if you’re just looking at Darius for Kelden Johnson and spare parts, the Cavs would be giving up the best, most talented player in that particular deal.
And I just don’t think that’s one that they would say yes to. The Cavs value Darius greatly. I know that the fan base is down on Darius because he’s coming off a really bad year, but he is a former All -Star.
He is a guy who at one point was looked at as one of the better young point guards in the entire NBA. And there were circumstances, logical circumstances to his struggles this past year. So I think there are enough data points that the Cavs can look at that say the Darius Garland that we saw last year.
Chris (41:03.572) That is the anomaly. And let’s see if he can bounce back.
Let’s see what it looks like for him in this new system, in this new offense, alongside Donovan Mitchell, where Darius doesn’t have to deal with a lot of the stuff that he dealt with last year. So the Cavs gave him a contract for a reason. They value him greatly.
They have placed a high value on him. And as long as that’s going to be the case, They’re not just going to say yes to any type of deal. When we’ve had all these conversations about Darius and his trade value and whether the Cavs would trade him or not trade him this off season, even I’ve said the same thing.
I find it hard to believe that there is an offer out there that some team is going to be willing to make to the Cavs that they would say yes to for Darius. And I still believe that. And I just don’t think Kelden Johnson and spare parts, even with some draft capital, I don’t think that’s one that the Cavs would say yes to.
I think they would need a better player in return than Kelden Johnson as a centerpiece type player. Ethan Sands (42:23.033) All right, Chris, we.
.. Ethan Sands (42:44.
113) All right, Chris, I think that wraps up this episode of the Wine and Gold Talk podcast. But remember to become a subtext subscriber. And this is where you can send all your questions for next week’s episode of Hey Chris.
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